Wineskins are on once again!
This time, Mark Strom is joined by Dr Rod Thompson to discuss the topic of CHURCH...
Saturday 17 May
at St Paul's
28 Symond Street, Auckland City
9:00am - 4:30pm.*
*Mark, Rod and the St Paul's team will be available for a session with church leaders at 4:45pm
This Wineskins series returns to our One Day format of Input and Facilitated Conversation.
This event will be free, but registration is required. Click 'here' to register.
(I regret I can't make it as I'm back home for my sister's wedding, but I look forward to any and all comments, feedback and discussion!)
Wineskin DAY - coming soon
Time for Wineskins again, soon!
This one's going to be a one-day-only affair.
If you're not registered, you'll miss out!
The topic is Leadership.
Mark will be sharing in several sessions throughout the day, with times for discussion and sharing as well.
-d-
Theology for Life - Night 4
Mark opened with a reading from Proverbs 30, which (among other things) highlights the mystery and wonder of creation. He talked about seeing the creation with new eyes, especially with the Spirit now given to God's people after Pentecost.
He reviewed the first three nights and dropped in this fantastic and extremely quotable phrase about Resurrection v. 'immortality':
He further reviewed the previous weeks, picking up on these points:
-Double Knowledge <> Trinity <> Image of God
-One and Many, Universal and Particular
-Thought: 'Knowing' in the Trinity (Father knows himself more by knowing the Son, and so on...)
-You in the particularity of your brilliance and stories
-Your whole life reveals God: (Text, Soul & Culture)
Just before the break, Mark showed some paintings from Marcia Hinds (view her work here), and talked about how God takes us on our 'journey' and uses the story of our own lives. He gave these points:
-Transformation >> towards the original intent
-Modelled >> In the life Jesus promised and the Spirit gifted
-Modelled >> In a community that knows this life
-AND... For the sheer wonder of LIFE!!!
After the break, before surveying various realms of life, Mark shared a phrase he picked up in his travels:
Art
-we sense that everything 'speaks'
-we sense how things are perspectives on other things
-we seek beauty at the core of our lives, not at the fringes
Knowledge
-we feel rationalism brutalising us
-we feel relativism leaving us empty
-we know truly & sufficiently, not exhaustively
-we sense the brilliance of love
Music
-we cherish the order & discipline that make freedom possible
-we feel tension and resolution
-we were born to improvise
Theatre
-we are learning how to read the script(ure) well
-we are learning how to bring a scrip(ure) to life
-we are learning the ars of 'finishing the play' (Tom Wright)
Community
-we long for it
-we find it in unlikely places
-we find ourselves changed in it
-we sense the implications of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control
(Mark briefly noted that most converstations about social justice issues lack a clear anthropology.)
Architecture
-we respect what does more than keep us dry and warm
-we judge by what we want to be
-we seek promises of happiness
Sport
-we exult in the thrill of the game
-we rejoice in RISK
-we know the dignity of playing hard
-we know some things only come by pushing as hard as we can
Conversation
-we sit with uncertainty
-we become open to the messiness that brings clarity and makes things happen
-we know meaning in the smallest delights
Culture
-we must honour what is different (diversity)
-we must honour what is common (unity)
Work
-we honour gain that comes from honest toil
-we rejoice to accomplish
-we honour initiative
-we delight in making and doing what has not been done
Environment
-we are stilled
-we open to complexity wrapped in beauty
-we feel that wondrous interconnectedness we call 'system'
-we need our calling to stewardship made vivid
Friendship
-we know some things just can't be said
-we sense the depth in silence
-we honour small things
-we remind ourselves of who we are and what our lives mean
Intimacy
-we long to be known as we are known
-we long to love as one who is distinct but who chooses to embrace
-we were made for desire and delight
Leadership
-we know it is a really simply human thing
-we sense it's about wisdom, not fads
-we grasp the way the Gospel reframes it
Aging
-we feel the seasons
-we honour the seasons
-we honour innocence AND experience
-we must know how to finish well
Suffering
-we feel the tragedy of sin and the promise of grace
-we see the brilliance of hope
-we sense what words can never convey
-we learn not to fake our answers
Then Mark shared his poem 'This God' with us. The question of 'was Jesus God?' is answered by Tom Wright as '...it depends on which God you mean.' Mark has attempted to answer the question backwards - 'What kind of God would become Jesus?'
(an 'un-edited' version I have from another conference/retreat...)
This God
This God could put on eyebrows and kneecaps, tear ducts and saliva glands.
This God could be born under the tyrants Augustus and Herod.
This God could accept the smells of shepherds, and the extravagancies of political emissaries.
This God could start life a vulnerable hunted child born into scandal.
This God could grow up under foreign domination and among terrorists and outcasts.
This God could sit in the street playing marbles.
This God could wear with pride the calloused splintered hands of an honest workman building the houses and fixing the furniture of half-castes, outcasts and bigots.
This God could ask his cousin to baptise him along with the rest of the crowd.
This God could make the best vintage Pinot Noir or Cabernet Sauvignon even when the guests were too drunk to know the difference.
This God could befriend a bloke in a tree with small man syndrome.
This God could enjoy a prostitute washing his feet, giving her his full and undivided attention, and ignoring the eye-rolling of lawyers and theologians.
This God could spend a whole night making a whip to crack over the backs of con artists who rip-off the poor.
This God could wrap the greatest truths in the simplest stories, and put a sting in the tail of every yarn.
This God could let himself hang on a tree, nails tearing at his sinews, blood, faeces and urine running down his legs.
This God could invite women to be the first to know that he was back.
This God could delay his own glorious homecoming long enough for a bite of breakfast on the beach and a yarn with an old mate to let him know there were no hard feelings and to pass on his mantle.
This God could take his own story and give it the most surprising ending.
This God, this God, is worth knowing.
Comments with your thoughts, stories, wisdom, etc.!!!
He reviewed the first three nights and dropped in this fantastic and extremely quotable phrase about Resurrection v. 'immortality':
"Immortality has no respect for physicality. Resurrection is the redemption of physicality."He also added a great addition to the story of him and Luke, and how he got to the point in his mountain bike racing where he was able to 'not hold back'... The key moment was when Mark saw Luke off at the top of the mount, and instead of Luke's usual words - 'See you at the bottom', he smiled and said... 'Watch this.' Also he shared how Luke's attitude has matured to the point where he now starts every race with the brief thought/prayer, 'Lord, thank You for this gift.' Brilliant.
He further reviewed the previous weeks, picking up on these points:
-Double Knowledge <> Trinity <> Image of God
-One and Many, Universal and Particular
-Thought: 'Knowing' in the Trinity (Father knows himself more by knowing the Son, and so on...)
-You in the particularity of your brilliance and stories
-Your whole life reveals God: (Text, Soul & Culture)
Just before the break, Mark showed some paintings from Marcia Hinds (view her work here), and talked about how God takes us on our 'journey' and uses the story of our own lives. He gave these points:
-Transformation >> towards the original intent
-Modelled >> In the life Jesus promised and the Spirit gifted
-Modelled >> In a community that knows this life
-AND... For the sheer wonder of LIFE!!!
After the break, before surveying various realms of life, Mark shared a phrase he picked up in his travels:
"Know the Gospel. Know the Culture. Translate Well."He then moved on to these categories of human experience...
Art
-we sense that everything 'speaks'
-we sense how things are perspectives on other things
-we seek beauty at the core of our lives, not at the fringes
Knowledge
-we feel rationalism brutalising us
-we feel relativism leaving us empty
-we know truly & sufficiently, not exhaustively
-we sense the brilliance of love
Music
-we cherish the order & discipline that make freedom possible
-we feel tension and resolution
-we were born to improvise
Theatre
-we are learning how to read the script(ure) well
-we are learning how to bring a scrip(ure) to life
-we are learning the ars of 'finishing the play' (Tom Wright)
Community
-we long for it
-we find it in unlikely places
-we find ourselves changed in it
-we sense the implications of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self-control
(Mark briefly noted that most converstations about social justice issues lack a clear anthropology.)
Architecture
-we respect what does more than keep us dry and warm
-we judge by what we want to be
-we seek promises of happiness
Sport
-we exult in the thrill of the game
-we rejoice in RISK
-we know the dignity of playing hard
-we know some things only come by pushing as hard as we can
Conversation
-we sit with uncertainty
-we become open to the messiness that brings clarity and makes things happen
-we know meaning in the smallest delights
Culture
-we must honour what is different (diversity)
-we must honour what is common (unity)
Work
-we honour gain that comes from honest toil
-we rejoice to accomplish
-we honour initiative
-we delight in making and doing what has not been done
Environment
-we are stilled
-we open to complexity wrapped in beauty
-we feel that wondrous interconnectedness we call 'system'
-we need our calling to stewardship made vivid
Friendship
-we know some things just can't be said
-we sense the depth in silence
-we honour small things
-we remind ourselves of who we are and what our lives mean
Intimacy
-we long to be known as we are known
-we long to love as one who is distinct but who chooses to embrace
-we were made for desire and delight
Leadership
-we know it is a really simply human thing
-we sense it's about wisdom, not fads
-we grasp the way the Gospel reframes it
Aging
-we feel the seasons
-we honour the seasons
-we honour innocence AND experience
-we must know how to finish well
Suffering
-we feel the tragedy of sin and the promise of grace
-we see the brilliance of hope
-we sense what words can never convey
-we learn not to fake our answers
Then Mark shared his poem 'This God' with us. The question of 'was Jesus God?' is answered by Tom Wright as '...it depends on which God you mean.' Mark has attempted to answer the question backwards - 'What kind of God would become Jesus?'
(an 'un-edited' version I have from another conference/retreat...)
This God
This God could put on eyebrows and kneecaps, tear ducts and saliva glands.
This God could be born under the tyrants Augustus and Herod.
This God could accept the smells of shepherds, and the extravagancies of political emissaries.
This God could start life a vulnerable hunted child born into scandal.
This God could grow up under foreign domination and among terrorists and outcasts.
This God could sit in the street playing marbles.
This God could wear with pride the calloused splintered hands of an honest workman building the houses and fixing the furniture of half-castes, outcasts and bigots.
This God could ask his cousin to baptise him along with the rest of the crowd.
This God could make the best vintage Pinot Noir or Cabernet Sauvignon even when the guests were too drunk to know the difference.
This God could befriend a bloke in a tree with small man syndrome.
This God could enjoy a prostitute washing his feet, giving her his full and undivided attention, and ignoring the eye-rolling of lawyers and theologians.
This God could spend a whole night making a whip to crack over the backs of con artists who rip-off the poor.
This God could wrap the greatest truths in the simplest stories, and put a sting in the tail of every yarn.
This God could let himself hang on a tree, nails tearing at his sinews, blood, faeces and urine running down his legs.
This God could invite women to be the first to know that he was back.
This God could delay his own glorious homecoming long enough for a bite of breakfast on the beach and a yarn with an old mate to let him know there were no hard feelings and to pass on his mantle.
This God could take his own story and give it the most surprising ending.
This God, this God, is worth knowing.
This God could reach into the crevices of my soul to bring to life the longings I smother so pathetically and recklessly with shame and excuses.
This God could raise me up to life with him.
This God could give me every blessing he could give himself.
This God could draw me out of my petty self-interest without a hint of a ‘tut-tut’, a frown, or a patronising smile.
This God could be more infuriating and fascinating and gobsmacking than any god I could ever make up.
This God could love my obsessiveness and overlook my forgetfulness.
This God could laugh and cry with me, and come play with me.
This God could make me his glory.
This God could love me.
This God could make my heart good.
This God could trust me.
This God could never be safe, but always be good.
This God, this God, is worth knowing.
This God I want to know.
This God I know in the face and Spirit of Jesus.
by Mark Strom
Comments with your thoughts, stories, wisdom, etc.!!!
Theology for Life - Night 3
Last night was simply great.
In the first half, Mark said that he basically was trying to start a conversation. And, in order to shift that conversation, you have to shift people's perspectives. The perspective he wishes to 'shift' is seen in this new summary phrase that he offerred:
...More broadly Human because of the Gospel, than more narrowly Christian because of Tradition...
Among several other things, he talked about the 'works of the flesh' and the 'fruit of the Spirit' being 'non-religious', which of course, re-implies the above summary phrase and provides one example of how Mark's perspective plays out in Scripture.
Also, much time was given to the subject of gifting. Starting with another review of William Wilberforce, and ending the first half with a story of a school teacher, Mark demonstrated the need for us (humans gloriously made - and Gifted - in the image of God) to know, embrace and make us of our giftings!
The 2nd half consisted of the touching and truly inspiring story of Mark's son, Luke (which I will not dare try to summarise as it would not do justice to the atmosphere which the telling of it created in the room...).
I appreciated Mark's closing. There is no question about the need to hold the creator/creation distinction in it's proper place ('When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained, what is man that You take thought of him...? Psalm 8:3-4 NASB), but we must also know the value, dignity - and yes, even glory with which we have been made ("...Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! Psalm 8:5 NASB).
Please do share your thoughts!
In the first half, Mark said that he basically was trying to start a conversation. And, in order to shift that conversation, you have to shift people's perspectives. The perspective he wishes to 'shift' is seen in this new summary phrase that he offerred:
...More broadly Human because of the Gospel, than more narrowly Christian because of Tradition...
Among several other things, he talked about the 'works of the flesh' and the 'fruit of the Spirit' being 'non-religious', which of course, re-implies the above summary phrase and provides one example of how Mark's perspective plays out in Scripture.
Also, much time was given to the subject of gifting. Starting with another review of William Wilberforce, and ending the first half with a story of a school teacher, Mark demonstrated the need for us (humans gloriously made - and Gifted - in the image of God) to know, embrace and make us of our giftings!
The 2nd half consisted of the touching and truly inspiring story of Mark's son, Luke (which I will not dare try to summarise as it would not do justice to the atmosphere which the telling of it created in the room...).
I appreciated Mark's closing. There is no question about the need to hold the creator/creation distinction in it's proper place ('When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained, what is man that You take thought of him...? Psalm 8:3-4 NASB), but we must also know the value, dignity - and yes, even glory with which we have been made ("...Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty! Psalm 8:5 NASB).
Please do share your thoughts!
Theology for Life - Night 2
Night two saw Mark continuing in the theme of 'the big picture', but (especially in the 2nd half of the lecture) also making more practical suggestions of how this might play out in life.
Here are some highlights:
(the 'BIG' ideas)
Life >> Unity and Diversity
-very influential answer to this: Plato - dualism (matter doesn't 'matter' - only ideas)
-Bible has a different starting point & framework (namely, that creation is GOOD)
-early Christian thinkers reacted to dualism, but slowly adopted parts of it
-Augustine: God is single, unitary, unchanging, immovable, etc.
-(which led to this assumption) Unity of God >> truth singular /certain people hold keys to truth
17th and 18th century (ideological developments)
-huge philosophical reaction to this - the Enlightenment
-Essence of humanity
-particular people/things lost in universal ideas
-crtiteria and source of truth located in us
-Time = limitation; imitate eternity >> I.R. & management (control)
-Science = saviour & angel of death
-Art >> elite or >> meaningless (nothing = art; everything = art)
-Ethics stuck between rights & responsibilities
Value of a person
1. Individual disappears into faceless 'universal principles'
2. Individual lost in conformity to regimes (marxicism)
3. Individual pumped to 'be an individual' while lost in faceless fashions
Scriptures on Father, Son & Spirit (Trinity)
-Let 'us' make...
-In the beginning was the Word...
- I and the Father are One...
-He who has seen me has seen the Father...
-No one knows... only the Father... not even the Son...
-I will send the Spirit...
-The Lord is the Spirit...
-In Him all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form...
Father, Son, Spirit >> Creation
-In Him we live, move and have our being...
-Summing up all things in Christ...
-filled to all the fullness of God...
-in Him all things were created and hold together...
-to reconcile all things to himself...
-creation was subjected to futility...
Trinity
-analogy
-three close friends; identities SO bound up in relatedness, that they can't tell their OWN story without telling the others two friends' stories... (like that with God, but much further!)
-the 3 persons don't exist first and THEN relate, but their existence IS their relationship!
-God is as much 3 as He is 1
Man & Woman (image of God)
-humans find their true being in communion with others
-Gen. 1:26-28
-true being in "the communion-in-otherness that is male & female" - Marriage
-this mystery is seen in ALL close relationships
-plurality, relatedness & community
After the break, Mark shared a song with us ("Lies" by Stan Rogers - lyrics here), told a story about a disabled (but still a brilliant reflection of the Creator) person that inspired him, and then led us in the following exercise...
-think of a 'moment' when you felt 'fully alive'...
-think what that 'moment' means to you as a human being...
-try to finish the sentence (in light of the moment) 'I am one who...'
Those are my notes, I'd love to hear your thoughts, reflections, and more! (Mark himself often comments as well...) Comment away!
Here are some highlights:
(the 'BIG' ideas)
Life >> Unity and Diversity
-very influential answer to this: Plato - dualism (matter doesn't 'matter' - only ideas)
-Bible has a different starting point & framework (namely, that creation is GOOD)
-early Christian thinkers reacted to dualism, but slowly adopted parts of it
-Augustine: God is single, unitary, unchanging, immovable, etc.
-(which led to this assumption) Unity of God >> truth singular /certain people hold keys to truth
17th and 18th century (ideological developments)
-huge philosophical reaction to this - the Enlightenment
-Essence of humanity
-particular people/things lost in universal ideas
-crtiteria and source of truth located in us
-Time = limitation; imitate eternity >> I.R. & management (control)
-Science = saviour & angel of death
-Art >> elite or >> meaningless (nothing = art; everything = art)
-Ethics stuck between rights & responsibilities
Value of a person
1. Individual disappears into faceless 'universal principles'
2. Individual lost in conformity to regimes (marxicism)
3. Individual pumped to 'be an individual' while lost in faceless fashions
Scriptures on Father, Son & Spirit (Trinity)
-Let 'us' make...
-In the beginning was the Word...
- I and the Father are One...
-He who has seen me has seen the Father...
-No one knows... only the Father... not even the Son...
-I will send the Spirit...
-The Lord is the Spirit...
-In Him all the fullness of deity dwells in bodily form...
Father, Son, Spirit >> Creation
-In Him we live, move and have our being...
-Summing up all things in Christ...
-filled to all the fullness of God...
-in Him all things were created and hold together...
-to reconcile all things to himself...
-creation was subjected to futility...
Trinity
-analogy
-three close friends; identities SO bound up in relatedness, that they can't tell their OWN story without telling the others two friends' stories... (like that with God, but much further!)
-the 3 persons don't exist first and THEN relate, but their existence IS their relationship!
-God is as much 3 as He is 1
Man & Woman (image of God)
-humans find their true being in communion with others
-Gen. 1:26-28
-true being in "the communion-in-otherness that is male & female" - Marriage
-this mystery is seen in ALL close relationships
-plurality, relatedness & community
After the break, Mark shared a song with us ("Lies" by Stan Rogers - lyrics here), told a story about a disabled (but still a brilliant reflection of the Creator) person that inspired him, and then led us in the following exercise...
-think of a 'moment' when you felt 'fully alive'...
-think what that 'moment' means to you as a human being...
-try to finish the sentence (in light of the moment) 'I am one who...'
Those are my notes, I'd love to hear your thoughts, reflections, and more! (Mark himself often comments as well...) Comment away!
Theology for Life - Night 1
Well, a capacity crowd gathered for the first of four of the 'Theology for Life' talks. Mark shared his appreciation and excitement about what he perceived was a strong desire to gain a better hold on 'the big picture.'
The 'by-line' for the talks was this: 'Text, Soul and Culture as an integrated whole', and Mark explained this as the Scriptures (text) inviting us to take part in God's story, to have our lives (soul) shaped and reworked; and then taking our life into the world (culture) to transform it.
We watched a few videos such as this one that gave a good example of what Mark was trying to get at: namely, that we aren't saved simply just to fellowship and meet until we die and go to heaven - rather, we are to work for the transformation of humanity and culture as God's representatives.
One idea (perhaps intentionally worded in a way which may be controversial) that seemed to be at the center of the discussion was that God's project was NOT to 'make us Christian', but rather to renew humanity in and through us as the church.
Indeed, the idea of 'true humanity' was key. Humans, made in God's very image, find themselves to be most TRULY human when they know who they are in relation to the God who created them. The triune and inherently relational-within-himself God has chosen the earth as his temple and placed us - his image - in it. Thus, particularly in our creational and relational activity, we experience what it means to be a human being. Most importantly, Christ himself modeled true humanity for us.
After the break, Mark swept through most of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, highlighting Paul's view of this 'new humanity'.
Perhaps some found themselves with various questions or thoughts; small, large, simple, profound? I certainly cannot and did not cover everything here! Please do share!
The 'by-line' for the talks was this: 'Text, Soul and Culture as an integrated whole', and Mark explained this as the Scriptures (text) inviting us to take part in God's story, to have our lives (soul) shaped and reworked; and then taking our life into the world (culture) to transform it.
We watched a few videos such as this one that gave a good example of what Mark was trying to get at: namely, that we aren't saved simply just to fellowship and meet until we die and go to heaven - rather, we are to work for the transformation of humanity and culture as God's representatives.
One idea (perhaps intentionally worded in a way which may be controversial) that seemed to be at the center of the discussion was that God's project was NOT to 'make us Christian', but rather to renew humanity in and through us as the church.
Indeed, the idea of 'true humanity' was key. Humans, made in God's very image, find themselves to be most TRULY human when they know who they are in relation to the God who created them. The triune and inherently relational-within-himself God has chosen the earth as his temple and placed us - his image - in it. Thus, particularly in our creational and relational activity, we experience what it means to be a human being. Most importantly, Christ himself modeled true humanity for us.
After the break, Mark swept through most of Paul's letter to the Ephesians, highlighting Paul's view of this 'new humanity'.
Perhaps some found themselves with various questions or thoughts; small, large, simple, profound? I certainly cannot and did not cover everything here! Please do share!
Wineskins Part 3!
It's that time again!Mark's Topic for the up-coming Wineskin Talks is...
THEOLOGY FOR LIFE.
Should be great!
Dates are March 12, 19, 26 and April 2
At BCNZ (Auckland campus)
Hope to see you there!
Be sure to RSVP by clicking the link above...
-d-
Paul at Corinth - Night 4
Well, even if you only made it for 1 of the 4 nights of wineskin talks at BCNZ, you no doubt sense that your time was not wasted. Last night, Mark spoke from his heart about Paul, yes, but even more so about Jesus.
I appreciated his sweeping review of the last 3 nights, highlighting things that may have implications for us as the Church today.
He focused on how Paul saw the Dying and Rising of Christ...
-a Historical Event
-an Act on behalf of the people of God
-the Turning Point of all history
-the Explanation of Paul's change of life
-the Pattern of his subsequent life
-the Pattern of knowing Christ
Next was Paul on 'ekklesia'
-the Reference Point for the New Humanity
-the Focal Strategy for building up believers
-it reversed the meaning of the 'body' metaphor
-came with the idea of gifting >> brilliant innovation
-members gathered "to [verb] one another"
-Christ was the central figure, the meal was the central event
-the whole body had all the gifts neccessary
-one had the 'gift' to 'teach,' but each one taught
-immediacy, inimacy, innovation and order
Then he covered his take on Paul's style of leadership
-Never stop telling the story
-Maintain the central conversation
-Subvert abstract ideas by story
-Craft new meaning around story
-Embody the story
-Rework rank with grace
-Subvert status with grace
-Aim at congruence, not conformity
-Aim at maturity
Before opening the floor for response/questions/thoughts, Mark summarised his convictions on the challenge of imitating Paul
-Grasping the breadth / depth of vision of Jesus Christ and therefore also of life
-Grasping the counter-intuative and counter-cultural nature of Grace
-Translation between worlds
-Seeing the simplicity and profundity of vision for gathering and community
-Seeing the ruthless transparency of his life
Now. I think we had all (at least some of us) been waiting for Mark to give us 'marching orders' as to... well... what is wrong with 'church' today. He didn't go there. Personally, I think I really needed to hear a lot of the wise perspectives he shared. I tend to be a 'let's blast the whole thing down' kind of personality, and Mark sharply warned against that attitude. It would be easy (I suppose) for this blog to become a place for us to spout all of our opinions about what our communities could do differently, etc., and I really DO think that we have to keep imagining (and re-imagining) what this 'thing' can look like. I just hope that as we imagine, we are respectful of our brothers and sisters in the Lord who don't see things like us. And as we imagine, I hope we recognise that God is able to use even the things we may not like.
I felt encouraged and hopeful as we wrapped things up. God Spirit is very much alive and we need not grow disgruntled. Certainly, I don't think for a split-second that Mark was in any way trying to simply and positivistically affirm all of church life and practise. Far from it. He had subtle warnings against gatherings styled after 'motivational seminars' and/or 'rock concerts.' He admitted leaning personally toward something of a house-church model. But he was careful not to prescribe what was appropriate for every context.
Change is needed... badly. Yes. But waging war on the structures of 'church' is not the answer. As he quoted his father as saying, "Big doors swing on little hinges." Big change can start small. Another quote I found quite helpful went something like this... "the way to subvert the system is to ignore it..." The idol is nothing. The church-structure document is nothing! The obsessive culture of stirring up religious activity for the sake of having religious activity is nothing! I think many of us may find refuge in taking up the practise of (dare I suggest it in these terms) 'non-violent resistance.' If someone is pressuring you into leading a ministry, programme, study, service or anything else that you don't have genuine passion for - don't give in. Just a thought. I liked what he said about just 'having people over for dinner and a chat about Jesus.' May we be agents of change. In our faith communities, in our workplace environments, in our social lives, in the wider world... everywhere we go.
Comments please!
-d-
I appreciated his sweeping review of the last 3 nights, highlighting things that may have implications for us as the Church today.
He focused on how Paul saw the Dying and Rising of Christ...
-a Historical Event
-an Act on behalf of the people of God
-the Turning Point of all history
-the Explanation of Paul's change of life
-the Pattern of his subsequent life
-the Pattern of knowing Christ
Next was Paul on 'ekklesia'
-the Reference Point for the New Humanity
-the Focal Strategy for building up believers
-it reversed the meaning of the 'body' metaphor
-came with the idea of gifting >> brilliant innovation
-members gathered "to [verb] one another"
-Christ was the central figure, the meal was the central event
-the whole body had all the gifts neccessary
-one had the 'gift' to 'teach,' but each one taught
-immediacy, inimacy, innovation and order
Then he covered his take on Paul's style of leadership
-Never stop telling the story
-Maintain the central conversation
-Subvert abstract ideas by story
-Craft new meaning around story
-Embody the story
-Rework rank with grace
-Subvert status with grace
-Aim at congruence, not conformity
-Aim at maturity
Before opening the floor for response/questions/thoughts, Mark summarised his convictions on the challenge of imitating Paul
-Grasping the breadth / depth of vision of Jesus Christ and therefore also of life
-Grasping the counter-intuative and counter-cultural nature of Grace
-Translation between worlds
-Seeing the simplicity and profundity of vision for gathering and community
-Seeing the ruthless transparency of his life
Now. I think we had all (at least some of us) been waiting for Mark to give us 'marching orders' as to... well... what is wrong with 'church' today. He didn't go there. Personally, I think I really needed to hear a lot of the wise perspectives he shared. I tend to be a 'let's blast the whole thing down' kind of personality, and Mark sharply warned against that attitude. It would be easy (I suppose) for this blog to become a place for us to spout all of our opinions about what our communities could do differently, etc., and I really DO think that we have to keep imagining (and re-imagining) what this 'thing' can look like. I just hope that as we imagine, we are respectful of our brothers and sisters in the Lord who don't see things like us. And as we imagine, I hope we recognise that God is able to use even the things we may not like.
I felt encouraged and hopeful as we wrapped things up. God Spirit is very much alive and we need not grow disgruntled. Certainly, I don't think for a split-second that Mark was in any way trying to simply and positivistically affirm all of church life and practise. Far from it. He had subtle warnings against gatherings styled after 'motivational seminars' and/or 'rock concerts.' He admitted leaning personally toward something of a house-church model. But he was careful not to prescribe what was appropriate for every context.
Change is needed... badly. Yes. But waging war on the structures of 'church' is not the answer. As he quoted his father as saying, "Big doors swing on little hinges." Big change can start small. Another quote I found quite helpful went something like this... "the way to subvert the system is to ignore it..." The idol is nothing. The church-structure document is nothing! The obsessive culture of stirring up religious activity for the sake of having religious activity is nothing! I think many of us may find refuge in taking up the practise of (dare I suggest it in these terms) 'non-violent resistance.' If someone is pressuring you into leading a ministry, programme, study, service or anything else that you don't have genuine passion for - don't give in. Just a thought. I liked what he said about just 'having people over for dinner and a chat about Jesus.' May we be agents of change. In our faith communities, in our workplace environments, in our social lives, in the wider world... everywhere we go.
Comments please!
-d-
Paul at Corinth - Night 3
I won't be able to post a summary of night 3 until after I get back from Pastors Retreat this Friday, so I'll put this up for now, that way people can comment and raise questions specifically about Night 3 - 2 Corinthians. When I get back, I'll edit this.
For now, based on hearing Mark at other times and reading 'Reframing Paul', I'm guessing he will (among other things) highlight the growing tension between the rugged apostle and the cosmopolitan Corinthians, showing from the text of Paul's 2nd letter just how vulnerable Paul was with them. It seems that they (at least some of them) wanted Paul to be a Christian version of their prized sophist/lawyers. Paul doggedly refuses to boast, and insists on his alternate way of life, shaped by the dying and rising of Jesus. This turns into a battle. An important one, with the subversive power of the Gospel at stake. As Mark suggests in 'Reframing Paul,' - the Corinthians won this battle.
Then again, he totally may not take this track at all!
:)
Should be exciting! Can't wait!
Comment away!
For now, based on hearing Mark at other times and reading 'Reframing Paul', I'm guessing he will (among other things) highlight the growing tension between the rugged apostle and the cosmopolitan Corinthians, showing from the text of Paul's 2nd letter just how vulnerable Paul was with them. It seems that they (at least some of them) wanted Paul to be a Christian version of their prized sophist/lawyers. Paul doggedly refuses to boast, and insists on his alternate way of life, shaped by the dying and rising of Jesus. This turns into a battle. An important one, with the subversive power of the Gospel at stake. As Mark suggests in 'Reframing Paul,' - the Corinthians won this battle.
Then again, he totally may not take this track at all!
:)
Should be exciting! Can't wait!
Comment away!
Paul at Corinth - Night 2
Last night, Mark outlined the format of content of the 4 lectures as follows:
Night 1 - Overview & setting the scene
Night 2 - 1 Corinthians (Themes and 'problem' passages)
Night 3 - 2 Corinthians (Themes and 'problem' passages)
Night 4 - "What does this mean for today's 'church'?"
I'm particularly anticipating night 4, and have really enjoyed the first 2 nights.
Night 2 consisted of a sweep through the chapters of 1 Corinthians from bird's eye view. Mark shared inscriptions and papyri from the Roman world that shed much light on the text. After the supper-break, he covered as many of the 'difficult' passages as he could. Indeed, time was not on our side as he had to skip over much of what he had prepared, much to his frustration. Here were a few things that stuck out for me.
-The way the Gospel way of life stands out against the Roman lifestyle, particularly their contrasting values (wisdom, honour, the body, rights, the earth, identity, virtue, society, the future.)
-Mark repeated his clear opposition to the immortal soul being a Christian idea. This time, he widened his statement to say that the Scriptures don't teach this. (last week, he had only mentioned the New Testament)
-The depiction (textual, not visual!) of Corinthian sexuality was particularly 'vivid.' I appreciated not only his clarity with which he addressed this issue - which included the reality that Paul was opposed to homosexuality - but even more so, I was glad that he did so with sensitivity.
-His suggestion that Paul wanted the women to wear veils so as not to draw undue attention to the community, and that the 'angels' were human spies, messengers or ancient private-investigators who were paid to and ready to report any suspicious behavour. Duane and I have been chatting about this one.
-His comments about the 'women keeping silent' passage. Not only about translation issues (which suggest that it was loud arguements that were the problem), but also asserting that the underlying reason was (again) not to draw undue attention to the community.
-The insight he gave into the passage about being 'baptised for the dead.' His paraphrase was something like this: "You don't think your baptism was into death, do you? Of course not! It was a baptism into life!"
Night 1 - Overview & setting the scene
Night 2 - 1 Corinthians (Themes and 'problem' passages)
Night 3 - 2 Corinthians (Themes and 'problem' passages)
Night 4 - "What does this mean for today's 'church'?"
I'm particularly anticipating night 4, and have really enjoyed the first 2 nights.
Night 2 consisted of a sweep through the chapters of 1 Corinthians from bird's eye view. Mark shared inscriptions and papyri from the Roman world that shed much light on the text. After the supper-break, he covered as many of the 'difficult' passages as he could. Indeed, time was not on our side as he had to skip over much of what he had prepared, much to his frustration. Here were a few things that stuck out for me.
-The way the Gospel way of life stands out against the Roman lifestyle, particularly their contrasting values (wisdom, honour, the body, rights, the earth, identity, virtue, society, the future.)
-Mark repeated his clear opposition to the immortal soul being a Christian idea. This time, he widened his statement to say that the Scriptures don't teach this. (last week, he had only mentioned the New Testament)
-The depiction (textual, not visual!) of Corinthian sexuality was particularly 'vivid.' I appreciated not only his clarity with which he addressed this issue - which included the reality that Paul was opposed to homosexuality - but even more so, I was glad that he did so with sensitivity.
-His suggestion that Paul wanted the women to wear veils so as not to draw undue attention to the community, and that the 'angels' were human spies, messengers or ancient private-investigators who were paid to and ready to report any suspicious behavour. Duane and I have been chatting about this one.
-His comments about the 'women keeping silent' passage. Not only about translation issues (which suggest that it was loud arguements that were the problem), but also asserting that the underlying reason was (again) not to draw undue attention to the community.
-The insight he gave into the passage about being 'baptised for the dead.' His paraphrase was something like this: "You don't think your baptism was into death, do you? Of course not! It was a baptism into life!"
Paul at Corinth - Night 1
What an exciting night! The 300+ crowd was brimming with enthusiasm as Mark painted a vivid, full-colour picture of what life was like in ancient Corinth. Already many texts in Paul's Corinthian letters seem either less confusing or much more meaningful, radical and vibrant! Please comment with topics or insights you found particularly interesting. Here's mine...
-Getting a sweep of the timeline of history leading up to and surrounding the writing of the Corinthian letters was very helpful.
-Unpacking the dualistic worldview of Greek philosophy was incredibly helpful to understand how they viewed nature, reason, progress, rank, status, relationships, etc.
-I had never heard anyone so strongly discount the idea of the immortality of the soul, and was challenged by Mark's clear assertion that the New Testament does not teach this. As I think further about it, this idea does seem to 'fit' quite nicely in the dualistic Greek worldview as Mark said. But this raises lot's of questions about the soul...
-I was glad that he distributed the hand-out. It was good not to have to try and scribble down what he was talking about.
Comments welcome! Tell me what you took away from it!
Dale
-Getting a sweep of the timeline of history leading up to and surrounding the writing of the Corinthian letters was very helpful.
-Unpacking the dualistic worldview of Greek philosophy was incredibly helpful to understand how they viewed nature, reason, progress, rank, status, relationships, etc.
-I had never heard anyone so strongly discount the idea of the immortality of the soul, and was challenged by Mark's clear assertion that the New Testament does not teach this. As I think further about it, this idea does seem to 'fit' quite nicely in the dualistic Greek worldview as Mark said. But this raises lot's of questions about the soul...
-I was glad that he distributed the hand-out. It was good not to have to try and scribble down what he was talking about.
Comments welcome! Tell me what you took away from it!
Dale
Join the Conversation...
This address on the web has been created to un-pack and discuss various topics that relate to the Wineskin Lectures given by Mark Strom at Bible College of New Zealand.
This is intended to be a place of learning, dialogue and sharpening, so CHALLENGE each other!!! However, please remember to try and respect the person while you may be challenging their ideas...
Cheers,
Dale
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